All I would have to do is mention "DAC-Extasy" -- like they mention the uDAC or any other piece of equipment in thread after thread -- and they would automatically start piling on with their knee-jerk attacks. It's almost like some of them were actually just lurking there in the shadows, waiting for me to say "DAC-Extasy" so they could pounce and start attacking me over it. Pretty pathetic.
And it looks like Jude is still lying about his "multiple login" excuse for having me banned, even adding some bogus usernames under mine. That's because - as anyone can see who reads any of my posts at the Twilight Zone that is Head-fi - there is no real reason to ban me, so now I guess he has to make up some other lame excuse to attempt to justify it.
Once again, since the liars are at it pretty strongly over there, here is the post I made in the PH100 thread, in its entirety, that started all the flaming against me. As anyone can see, there is absolutely nothing offensive or out of the ordinary about it at all -- except that it mentions Hotaudio. It's no different from thousands upon thousands of other posts over there where people recommend gear:
[quote=userlander]That's it. That's the entire post. Literally only a few words about the Hotaudio amp, and then the attacks on me about it started, most amusingly from that one retard who didn't even own either amp. No attacks for mentioning Alessandro over the Sonys though -- why not? Because it's not Hotaudio, and they have all been conditioned like little lab rats to spit and bite at the mere mention of Hotaudio whenever anyone even says the name.
Having owned the MDR-V4s, which are very similar to the MDR-V6, and owning a PH100, I can give you some suggestions.
For about the same money or sometimes less, the Hotaudio Thunderbolt Max is imo an overall better sounding amp than the PH100.
If you want a similar sounding headphone to the MDR-V6 but a step up, try the Alessandro MS-1s. Great bang for the buck headphones.
Pair those up with a good DAC or CD player and that is a very killer rig.
Then the low class losers joined in the bashing, like that "angle_shooter" d!ckwad who followed me around the forum bashing me whenever he could even after I spent literally weeks helping him in PMs. They started posting insulting pictures of me, and all the rest of the childish crap they engage in over there (and don't get banned for it). Instead *I* then got banned (for what??), and they deleted the thread to remove the evidence of how it was me who was attacked and banned, when they were the ones doing the attacking. Lol - what a bunch of psychos.
Fortunately I saved that entire exchange -- the one for which I was originally banned and that "angle_shooter" and a few others over there continue to say I "deserved" to be banned for -- and since they are lying about me left and right, I'll just go ahead and post it here.
If anyone can see any reason why I (and I alone) should be banned for what transpired here, please tell me what it is. I don't see anything ban worthy in the least -- just the opposite, in fact. I see a guy offering advice on some components he has heard to someone who asked, and then I see a whole lot of people who had never even heard it start attacking and bashing me, for which they were NOT banned. This is why I say stay away from Head-Fi. This is the kind of thing they engage in over there.
So without further ado, here is the first reply to my post above from Head-fi n00b #1. Notice how right away he is trying to discredit me by referring to this impedance issue, when I never even said anything about using the PH100 with the beyer headphones:
[quote=n00b #1]Notice that I also never said anything sounded bad. They have never heard what they are talking about, so they have to make up some false pretense to start attacking me over -- just like Jude had nothing to ban me for so apparently he had to make up his "multiple login" excuse. And that's exactly what n00b #1 did here by making up this issue about using the PH100 with beyers. But anyone reading this can see I never said anything remotely like that. The head-fi n00bs just make things up out of thin air. That's their M.O. The technical name for what he just did there is a "straw man" argument.
If you are using your Beyer with the PH100, no wonder it sounds bad. Its made for low impedance headphone in mind not 250Ohms Beyers.
I set him straight on his straw man diversion, pointing out in a matter-of-fact reply that I had never said anything sounded "bad":
[quote=userlander]Notice here and throughout how there is no personal attacking in my response. I just make my statement in a matter of fact way.
Where did I ever say anything sounded "bad?"
I use my DT880s with the Thunderbolt Max, which sounds fantastic. I alternate with using my MS-1s with the Thunderbolt Max, which also sounds great.
But that isn't good enough for the Head-Fi herd. Another one now had to chime in to bash the Thunderbolt Max -- which he even admitted he had never heard:
[quote=head-fi n00b#2]He's "guessing." Well, isn't that reliable, useful information? He "guesses." That appears to be the level of information they value over there -- "guesses" about things, while they ban the person who has actually heard it. Makes sense, right?
I am guessing but if I tried hooking my K702 to "Thunderbolt Max" it would not sound very impressive at all.
So then I called him out on it:
[quote=userlander]Which of course it is. But that's how they operate over there at Head-Fi. According to their in-group "rules," they can make up anything they want about Hotaudio products "not sounding very impressive at all," when they have never even HEARD what they're talking about, and they are never banned or attacked for that. They are applauded for it, in fact, by the rest of the herd. And then all the other fanboy shills there pile on against the person who actually HAS heard the gear. That's how they operate over there in Bizarro World.
Actually, you're wrong on all counts. The T-Max has more power than the Shanling, it has more bass, it's warmer, and it also has better refinement and detail. Your K702s would likely sound much more expansive with a better soundstage on the Thunderbolt Max than they do with the PH100.
But the poster I was talking to wasn't even talking about K702s, was he? So your opinion is not only unfounded -- based on not even having heard the amp you're "guessing" about -- but it also had nothing to do with what the poster was asking at all, which was about MDR-V6s, did it?
You said you were only "guessing," which is partly true. It's more like you're just making things up out of thin air about an amp you've never even heard before. So that's kind of weird.
Then head-fi n00b #1 posts again with some bogus power numbers, and I had to set him straight on that, too, calling him out on the fact that he has never heard what he is trying to bash:
[quote=userlander]He then tries to change the subject again, back to his irrelevant straw man post about impedance that was already discounted when he brought it up in the first place:
Not sure what that's supposed to prove, but the T-Max is subjectively more powerful. As you even said before, the PH100 can't even drive DT880s adequately. The Thunderbolt Max drives them better even than my Audiotailor Jade tube amp. I have never even raised the volume past 12 o'clock.
But then again, you've never heard the Thunderbolt Max, have you? So of course you don't even know what you're talking about.
[quote=n00b#1]So I pointed out to him that the impedance question had already been addressed and was irrelevant because I had used my MS-1s, and then I had to call him out again for never even having heard what he is bashing:
Errmm... the PH100 is design to driver LOW IMPEDANCE headphones, it have been stated so many times here.
How many other headphone have you even tried with the T-Max? Also sound is rather subjective, just look at the opinions of SA5000, K701, W5000, W1000 you can see it there.
I don't even know what you are trying to prove, the fact is the PH100 is more powerfull SPEC wise. And $250USD+ for a IC amp with 12volt wallwart? No thanks. [/quote]
[quote=userlander]Yeah, and my low impedance phones sound better on the Thunderbolt Max. It's a better sounding amp.To say there is mounting frustration with these n00bs and all their poor arguments and their diversions is an understatement. Nevertheless, I try to keep my cool as well as I can, not really wanting to drop to their level.
But you wouldn't know that because you've never heard it, have you? So maybe you should just take a break from posting about something you don't know anything about until you have a little bit more of a clue.
It's a little bit bizarre. You've never even heard what you're talking about, and yet you seem to think you're some kind of expert on it. Are you going to tell us all now what it feels like to drive the space shuttle? freaking weird.
Seeing his first diversion tactic fail with me, the n00b then changed his focus again, and starts attacking what is well known in the audio world as one of the best sounding headphone circuits ever made. But notice, he still hasn't heard the actual application of the chip in the Hotaudio amp he is bashing, only some other implementation:
pretty much ended it for me. My Essence's headphone amp have the same old TPA6210A2 chip on it, no matter how epic the circuit is the same chip is the same chip. No to say my Essence is cheaper, and a nice source. When I was thinking about IC is OpAmp IC not the whole headphone amp in a IC... $250USD for that? 100% NO.
Sorry but thatNotice his last line. I bolded it for emphasis. Remember what he says there. It will become EXTREMELY hilarious later. ;-)
I seriously doubt how many other amps you have heard.
Even after I go on to call him out AGAIN for never having heard what he's trying to criticize, he keeps up the Hotaudio bashing, saying that the T-Max is overpriced" (it's less than the PH100), and that if you buy it you will be "ripped off":
[quote=n00b #1]No banning for that - why not? Because talking about getting "ripped off" by a Hotaudio product (that you have never heard) is acceptable at Head-fi. If you said you would get "ripped off" buying the uDAC or the PH100, they would attack you, and eventually YOU would be the one to get banned. That's how they operate at Head-fi, and that's why I say that if you care about getting all sides of the story in an objective, respectful way, avoid Head-fi like the plague. You are seeing why right now.
No, I am just helping someone not to get ripped off buying a overpriced amp. [/quote]
After more back and forth, I then try to cut it off with these attackers and appeal directly to the guy who was asking about buying the PH100 in the first place, directing him to this "angle_shooter" person who, like I said before, now appears to be an alias account for one of the mods or other people on the "inside" there:
[quote=userlander]... do yourself a favor. Don't listen to these people who slam something without ever having heard it. Anyone can see there is no credibility in that.Banned for that? Pretty surreal, huh? Anyone can see that is reasonable, objective advice, telling him to get the whole story, instead of just the one-sided biased head-fi story. But instead Head-fi bans me for it.
PM angle_sh00ter, who just went through the same thing. He finally went with the T-Max and says he loves it. Ask the people who have heard it before making any decisions, rather than relying on people who have never heard something and don't know what they're talking about. Then decide whatever you want.
But get informed first, from people with first hand experience, rather than listening to people who have never heard something and slam it for no reason as if they have. Obviously there is some agenda going on there, because what other reason could someone have for slamming something they've never heard? At the very least, that's not someone you can really trust, imho.
So let's examine this logically: the person who has heard BOTH amps, and is still telling this guy to get the whole story is banned; the members who have NOT heard both amps and are telling they guy not to get the one they haven't heard are not banned.
How can you trust anything you read from those people over there with that kind of thing going on? They tell people not to get things when they haven't even heard them.
Meanwhile, in response to the guy asking for suggestions, I then post a very long, informative post comparing the two amps in detail. I won't copy it here because it is very long, very detailed. If they haven't deleted all my posts over there, anyone can go and see it for themselves (edit: as we now know, they have since deleted that entire thread to cover their tracks. It's unfortunate, but that's how they operate over there: cowardly and dishonest to the max). It's an extremely detailed and objective review, with more information than any of them have ever posted on either amp in the entire thread.
I closed my review with this:
[quote=userlander]So where is all this "shilling: they are talking about? It's just an unbiased, objective comparison of two amps, which I have heard and own -- which they haven't and don't -- and yet they bash me over what they haven't heard anyway (and are not banned for it). Don't they know an objective and even-handed review when they see one? Apparently not. I even say that if you typically like a Class A or SS sound you might prefer the Shanling. So what exactly is all this "shilling" they keep referring to? When they have 100+ page threads on the uDAC and mention that POJ in every other post? For some reason they don't see that they are the shills.
With my Alessandros, the two amps are actually pretty close, it's not like there's a hugely dramatic difference. You can definitely hear the "Class A-ness" of the Shanling, which makes it sound slightly cleaner and more direct, if not a little thinner in comparison. The T-Max has a richness and vibrance lacking in the Shanling, though, I guess from the audio IC. It's almost tube-like, in fact. At what point you start calling something "artificial coloration" is unclear to me - it's just the way this particular circuit sounds, apparently.
With low-impedance phones, the choice between these two I think would be a matter of individual preference. If you like a more SS sound, you'd probably prefer the Shanling, and if you like a more tube-like sound, you'd probably like the T-max better. Maybe in the end that's the best way to characterize it. Just don't use high impedance phones with the Shanling -- does not translate.
Now here is where it really gets good. The guy who ignored everything I said about the Thunderbolt Max and went on and bought the Shanling anyway then started complaining that the Shanling didn't perform as well as he wanted IN EXACTLY THE AREAS I TOLD HIM THE T-MAX WAS BETTER! LOL!
So I wrote in to let him know that, and to answer his specific questions:
[quote=userlander]Notice again - nothing but helpful, accurate information for the entire post. Way more helpful and accurate than anything he was getting from any the n00bs there, who were too busy attacking me to say anything useful to anybody.
Not to say I told you so, but as I said earlier, the T-Max has more bass than the PH100....
For your other question, in my experience with the amp, there is not much "break-in" at all with the PH100, if any. What you hear is what you're going to get, barring any psychoacoustic changes that might develop. Of course that's always a controversial subject. But in the 6 or so months I have had it, I haven't noticed much of a change from how it sounded initially. Definitely nothing major like going from bass-shy to having lots of bass.
But now the shills are really getting mad, because now someone else was CONFIRMING my objective review on how the Shanling really sounds. They want to pretend it sounds one way, but when it turns out that my review is more accurate and that it really doesn't, they attack anyone who says so:
[quote=n00b #2]Then I called him out on that - I have to do a lot of calling out, as you notice. All they seem to post are distortions, diversions, and personal attacks.
Sad to see the Shanling PH100 being dragged through the mud like this. I find this amp gives my K702 a really nice bass response. The amp is dead silent and is built a lot nicer than any of the amps it is being compared to. Mine is different from the pictures on here. The circuit board is green not yellow the power supply section is a different and some parts are colored different. [/quote]
[quote=userlander]To which n00b #2 replied:
"Dragged through the mud?" What are you talking about? It has less bass than the T-Max and is not as rich sounding. That's just a fact. That's not "dragging through the mud."
[quote]How about you start by taking your meds and start a T-max fanboy thread?[/quote]Notice where the personal attacks are actually coming from. They're really mad that someone dares to say a Hotaudio amp sounds better, but they are not banned for their attacks on me, are they? I wonder why not, Jude? Why might that be? They attack me, while calling me the attacker. Classic delusional behavior. And they are not banned.
He then even calls me a "thread jacker":
[quote=n00b #2] Why should I care about this other amp you worship? The fact that you go on and on about it for 3-4 pages proves your just a thread jacker. [/quote]Yes, sure. That's what it "proves," right.
Now head-fi n00b #1 chimes in again (they're attacking me from all sides - their usual tactic over there) to say it's not okay to compare the Hotaudio amp with the Shanling -- of course not, the Hotaudio amp sounds better, and they don't want to hear that:
[quote=n00b #1]How many times do you need to be told this is a PH100 thread not a T-Max thread. Now go and create you own one and waffle on there. [/quote]So I called him out - AGAIN - what is this, like the third or fourth time pointing out that he's never heard the T-Max?
[quote=userlander]Okay - now get ready for this one. Remember how I told you not to forget that n00b #1 accused me of "not having heard many amps?" Now he writes in not only to say that he's never heard the T-Max before, but -- and you'd better be sitting down for this one -- he's never even heard the PH100 that he's been bashing the T-Max over this whole time!!! LOL!!!
You apparently missed where Razorjack asked for suggestions. Having heard both amps, I gave him my suggestion. Then you fanboys got mad because it's not what you wanted to hear. But that's not my problem.
The guy's phones originally are/were the MDR-V6, and -- from owning a similar phone to those, also, the MDR-V4 -- I can guarantee they would sound better on the T-Max, with better bass, better richness, and better detail. So why should he be steered wrong by the fanboys? It's not my problem that you fanboys can't handle the truth.
So let's see: I've owned both amps, you have only owned one of them. I have owned phones very similar to his, and you haven't owned those, either. So who does it seem is in a better position to give him good advice?
I know - you still think the answer is "you." That's what makes you irrational.[/quote]
[quote=n00b #1]Again, ROFL! He's never even heard the amp that the thread is about -- a thread that he's actually telling me to get out of, even though I *own* the amp! Lol, you can't get much more idi0tic than that.
What makes me a fanboy of the PH100? I don't own it or heard it. I have the same IC amp, and it SUCKS. If you like your T-MAX that much, be it that way.
But I would say I am a Luxman P1 fanboy..
Needless to say, I expressed the absurdity of these head-fi n00bs, as any reasonable person would:
[quote=userlander]Now noob #2 chimes in again to attack me again with his brilliant and witty "take your meds" comment, repeated about 3 times by now I think (these folks are not too bright - or original, obviously):
Lol - so you don't even have the PH100?? And you have never even heard it??? And you're telling me to get out of the thread, when I actually own it -- when it's sitting on my desk only 2 feet away from me and I listen to it nearly every day?
Lol, the fanboys keep getting even more absurd by the minute. [/quote]
[quote=n00b #2]Notice how he even admits that they're getting mad that someone is daring to say the Hotaudio amp sounds better. He just said it - that's what's making him mad.
Why would you think I am mad? Is that what you are here tying to accomplish? To see how many people you can piss off? It's not my fault that you're a headcase. You should take your meds. [/quote]
I replied again, still actually very patiently considering all the attacks I've been receiving:
[quote]I don't need meds. I have the T-Max to keep me happy.To which n00b 2 calls me a "troll" and a "headcase":
I think the ones who need meds are the ones who, as it now turns out, don't even own ANY of the amps they're talking about. It's quite surreal, like the twilight zone, in fact. What's that guy doing in a PH100 thread giving advice about it when as it now turns out he's never even heard it?
Here's a head-fi thread positing that the TPA6120a2 is possibly, "the best headphone amp in the world":
TPA6120A2 best headphone amp in the world?
And anyone can search google and see all the stellar things that have been said about this IC over the years by all kinds of people. But according to this guy with a hundred or so posts on head-fi.org, it "sucks," lol. Everyone also knows it's as much if not more about the way it's built than the IC itself. Apparently this Ra970r doesn't know what he's doing and built a sucky amp with it, and now thinks it sucks. [/quote]
[quote= n00b #2]Keep trolling headcase [/quote]Real witty and original, right? These n00bs aren't that bright. That's the level these Head-fiers are on. And notice how it's just attack after attack, name calling after name calling, and never once are they banned or even warned for it.
Why not, Jude? That seems right to you?
Sadly, I think it does seem right to him. That's why I say avoid Head-fi at all costs. It's like a loony bin over there, and the inmates are running the asylum.
Then this "angle_shooter" guy who wasted all my time PMing me for help for weeks also starts chiming in to make some digs and attack my credibility:
[quote=angle_shooter]Notice his hostile tone, and yet I answer him completely straightforwardly:
I have a Thunderbolt Max and will soon have a PH100 also. I don't really need 2 amps so I will end up keeping the 1 which sounds the best and selling the other. This is the best way is to get the amps and listen to them and make up your own mind. It makes no sense to argue about an amp you have never even heard before.
To userlander: Would I be correct to assume that you must find that the PH100 does somethings better than the Thunderbolt or you would have sold it and bought another Thunderbolt for your desk setup as they are considerably cheaper than the PH100. [/quote]
[quote=userlander]Not really. It's been more just a case of laziness and inertia up till now. But when I read somewhere that hotaudio was making a Class-A amp, I decided to keep it for now to compare against that if it ever comes out. If not, eventually I will probably just sell the PH100 at some point - not because it's necessarily a *bad* amp, especially as a secondary setup, but I mainly haven't decided what to replace it with, what direction I'm going to go in as far as upgrading headphones, etc. So I've just not been in any real hurry to sell it up to this point. It serves its purpose for now. [/quote]That should be enough for anyone. Most people without an agenda would just say, "okay, I see, thanks for the explanation." But he just can't let it go. For some reason (I wonder why? ;)) he feels the need to keep grilling me on it:
[quote=angle_shooter]So I patiently answer his attack on my credibility AGAIN:
So my question is why do you use the PH100? You said just a few minutes ago that you use it every day. It would only take a few seconds to connect the Thunderbolt Max to your MS-1 as it is the tiniest thing in the world. [/quote]
[quote=userlander]I leave the T-Max at home for use with my beyers. Like I said, the Shanling is okay. I don't like it as much as the T-Max, but it's okay for its purpose right now. I don't have to have the absolute OMG best every minute. If anything, it just increases my appreciation for the T-max having the contrast. [/quote]Wow - I'm really an unreasonable guy, aren't I? The only thing unreasonable about my responses is that I should have told them all to go to hell a long time ago. That's what makes me unreasonable. I take too much of their stupid shit.
At this point, head-fi n00b #3 starts chiming in, because he doesn't like the fact that yet ANOTHER Hotaudio product is better than their mass-produced, budget junk they all shill for over there like the uDAC:
[quote=n00b #3]Notice how he calls it "derailing" to mention a Hotaudio product. When someone compares a pico dac, or some other dac to the uDAC, they don't call that "derailing." Why not? Because they're fanboy hypocrites?
So derailing the uDAC thread with your incessant s***ling for the Hotaudio DAC is not enough for you, userlander?[/quote]
So I answered his personal attack yet again with facts, reason and logic (which they have none of, only fanboy love of gear that everyone else tells them to love):
[quote=userlander]Then he aggressively comes at me again to lie about me saying something in the uDAC thread that he took completely out of context and that I never said:
I didn't "derail" anything. I gave my impressions. Again, sorry if the fanboys didn't like it. The uDAC isn't jesus. Although you would never know it from the fanboy adulation for that dac. I'm honest, I'm not a fanboy. Comparing the uDAC to a $1,000 DAC, lol, when my $300 V-DAC beats both the uDAC and the DAC-Extasy. Get real.
And why *wouldn't* I talk about better sounding gear? This is an audio forum, to talk about the gear that sounds good, but some of you strangely want to fight and argue against better sounding gear (that you've never heard) in favor of gear that doesn't sound as good. I guess you base everything on the name it has and the amount of fanboys praising it rather than how it sounds. That seems kind of weird to me, but if you want to be a bottom feeder constantly manipulated by the latest 'uDAC' to come along, that's your business. [/quote]
[quote=n00b #3]Says the guy who claims that the Hotaudio DAC is better than the Pico without actually auditioning it. [/quote]And I corrected his blatant misrepresentation of that episode, which he is now trolling me about in this thread that has nothing to do with the uDAC -- a thread that he is not contributing anything to, but which he is coming into for the sole purpose of attacking me, and for which he is not banned:
[quote=userlander]I didn't say that. The uDAC fanboys said the uDAC sounded better than the Pico. Since the DAC-Extasy easily sounds better than the uDAC, according to what THEY say, it must therefore also sound better than the Pico, right?And then he posted a huge, bandwidth robbing picture attacking me, which the mods left up, while my response to defend myself yet again from their attacks was deleted. And at that point, *I* was the one who was banned. Makes sense, right?
I mean, that's simple logic, but of course these fanboys have nothing to do with logic. [/quote]
So let's examine this objectively. Head-fi n00b #3 came into the thread for no other reason than to personally attack me, which he proceeded to do in post after post, finally culminating in posting a huge, insulting picture to attack me, and the post I made defending myself was deleted and I got banned, while he went along his merry way and was not banned.
That makes sense to somebody?
So there you have it. Twilight Zone material. I was banned, while they attacked me and posted goofy pictures to attack me, which were left up, undeleted, and with those users not banned. They come into threads with nothing to say about the topic at all, but only with the sole purpose of bashing and attacking me, and that is fine to Jude and the Head-fi mods. That's how they operate at Head-fi. Anyone comparing Hotaudio gear favorably to their gear is attacked, harassed, and ultimately banned. You just saw it happen with your own eyes.
Now to be fair, I have a Master's degree in Communication and Rhetoric, and scored a 98th percentile on the verbal portion of the Graduate Record Exam and a 92th percentile on the reasoning portion. And I was having a bad day. So yes, I have a little bit of an advantage over average people like they tend to be at that forum when it comes to analyzing textual discourse.
But let's be real. The exchange I posted is pretty straightforward. You don't need a Master's Degree or even a B.A. to be able to follow the progression -- to see their illogical, hateful, attacking responses to me, and by contrast the logical and well-reasoned answers I gave to their attacks. That should be pretty obvious to anyone.
And based on the feedback I've received about this blog, that is obvious to just about everyone -- everyone except the very same Head-fi n00bs who are still bashing me to this day, in the pathetic effort to maintain their delusional mythology about themselves being the intelligent reasonable ones and me as the "big bad wolf" who was picking fights with everyone, when I have just posted the textual evidence showing the exact opposite.
And that's the way it was in every thread like that one. You can go and search the archives yourself and see it happen time and again in virtually this same exact way -- unless they have started deleting those threads, too.
So now anyone can see it in an arena they have no control over. I'm sure they'll be fuming to see all this posted here, where they can't just ban me to silence exposing all the lies and hypocrisy. Anyone can read it for themselves - I have just posted the actual transcript here for everyone to see. And I'm sure it galls them to NO end, as the truth usually does to people who are intent on misrepresenting it. Oh, well - live by the sword, die by the blog.
According to their policy, users also are supposedly not allowed to discuss bans or discuss members who were banned. But they are discussing me quite often there. Just go look in the Hotaudio thread. Even the forum owner "Jude" is joining in on it. Apparently discussing banned members not only is completely allowed when it's me who was the one banned, but the owner of the site himself even joins in to libel and attack me. I guess they have a way to justify everything they do, no matter how backward or hypocritical. That why I say to avoid Head-fi and the Twilight Zone atmosphere over there. Who knows - if you were to try to discuss some audio component over there that you liked and they had never heard, you might be the next one to be harassed and banned for it, just like I was.